OPEN FORUM

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Updated 24.1.07
OPEN FORUM: MOBILE PHONES
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From Trevor Jones
24.1.07
Richard
Last Saturday a mobile phone went off early in another county match game (not mine) causing two players who had both travelled some distance for a full length game to have a wasted afternoon when the loss of game was applied. No reminder had been given at the start of play. I'd like to see comopetition rules (SCCU and leagues - I don't have a view on congresses) amended to say that it is the duty of captains to ensure a mobile phone reminder is issued to all present at the start of play in any match and that a failure to do so shall mean that the first occurrence of a mobile phone ringing shall be taken as the reminder without penalty for that infringement. (In competitions where players have more than one game in the same afternoon or evening session, such as rapidplay events, the reminder need only be given on the first occurrence.)
     Quite honestly I felt one ring wasn't itself much distraction to my own thinking, but I was more distracted by wondering whose it was and whether it would be penalised.
H Trevor Jones htjones@raildev.fsnet.co.uk
Guildford

From Gavin Strachan
12.9.06
Some mobile phones have the capacity to run chess software such as Chessmaster. Although it is in its relative infancy, I can see that in the not too distant future mobile phone chess software may be as good as current PC’s. You can also play chess on the Internet with play.com’s downloadable software. I like the fact that arbiters these days make every effort to remind players to turn their phones off at the start of a tournament. If a person needs their phone due to being ‘on-call’ then perhaps it is reasonable that they make the arbiter aware and put their phone on silent/vibrate if possible or a ‘not too loud or silly’ sounding tone.
     Article 12.2 “It is strictly forbidden to bring mobile phones or other electronic means of communication, not authorised by the arbiter, into the playing venue..." does give leverage for the arbiter to authorise the phone if the player makes him aware and gives a reasonable excuse as to needing it to be on in the playing hall. Players cheating by leaving the hall for assistance (any form) is difficult to catch and the opponent should perhaps make the arbiter aware of the situation if he has suspicions.
Gavin Strachan gavin@strax.efhmail.com
Brentwood

From Bernard Cafferty
10.9.06
Richard,
Excellent though the comments of Chris Howell and others recently on the Forum are, they do not exhaust the subject. What of the case where a mobile phone is left on and is in a bag in the playing room but the owner (often unknown/unidentified at first) is either a 'spectator' by virtue of having finished his game and having left the room, or he/she is still in play but is also absent from the playing area?
     It does happen. It has happened twice in county matches in which I have participated. The first case was before the FIDE rule was brought in. A colleague finally identified the offender's bag, rummaged around in it and put a stop to the nuisance after some minutes.
     The second case saw no-one take responsibility at first; the distraction to all in play continued for at least a minute before someone from the offender's side took the offending bag outside. No penalty was incurred on that occasion, as the officials (match captains) were bemused, just as the rest of us in play were not amused!
     That is why I feel the strictest wording of the rule should apply.
Bernard Cafferty bernardcafferty@tiscali.co.uk
Hastings

From Chris Howell
8.9.06
Dear Richard
Can I suggest a global solution to the mobile phone problem?
     There are two issues as it seems to me - "distraction" and "illegal use of electronic equipment". The distraction issue is resolved by the immediate loss of any player whose mobile goes off during his game and any "spectator" being removed permanently from the playing area. Anyone who needs to have a phone, pager or other communication device on for any reason must have it silent (on rumble at less than 5 on the Richter scale) and MUST have registered same device with arbiter if present or opposition match captain in a team event - otherwise loss if it goes off. To respond to said mobile or pager the player concerned would obviously have to leave the playing area with the arbiter/opposing mc being informed.
     Chess in this country has declined enough recently without losing Nick Butland [25.7.06] from its ranks...
Regards
Chris Howell chris.howell8@btinternet.com
Redhill

From Graham Mill-Wilson
6.9.06
Richard,
Mobile phones
We accept (at least most of us do) that it is impractical to ban phones altogether, so we brought in the rule that phones must be switched off last year. I myself fell victim to it (as congress secretary I had just warned everybody to turns theirs off, but forgot about my own!). However, a situation arose at this year's League Congress where a player was fiddling with his phone, although it didn't ring. It caused a lot of bad feeling with his opponent, an officer of the league. As a result, we now have a rule (if you come to play in a Bristol congress take note!) that anyone found with a phone switched on in the playing area loses their game. A second offence results in the player being kicked out of the congress. There is an exception for players who can persuade the arbiter before start of play that they must have their phone on for some important reason. The situation for league matches is not really any different. We agonised long and hard over whether team captains are arbiters, and decided that they are not, since they are playing their own games. However, the rule still applies. They must be off, or you're out! If it happens, the captains have to sort it out, and are allowed to stop their clocks if necessary to do so. I agree that we need a rule for all England, and I (we!) think that rule should be all phones switched off. A ringing phone doesn't only affect the opponent, it affects the whole congress. Incidentally, we also say spectators whose phones ring will be asked to leave, and that if your game has finished, you are a spectator.
Graham Mill-Wilson Tugmw@blueyonder.co.uk
Bristol & District League

From Kevin Thurlow
2.9.06
Hi Richard
Colin Walker raises an interesting point about mobile phones in the playing venue. FIDE Laws were written for "proper" tounaments, where you are staying in the hotel where the tournament is staged, so there is no excuse for having the phone with you. Ordinary English weekend tournaments or evening leagues are different, but even though players are starting to realise that if the thing rings they lose, you frequently see players scurrying from the room, looking at the phone. In evening leagues, we usually agree that the captain can have his phone on silent mode if the team is missing a player, in case a message is on the way. Article 13.7b says "It is forbidden for anybody to use a mobile phone in the playing venue and any area designated by the arbiter." Before each round at tournaments at which I am arbiter, I announce that it is illegal to use a phone during the game, (unless I give permission, i.e. for doctor on call) but I recently greeted a player who was sending a text message, and asked if he'd finished his game. He said "No", so I enquired why I shouldn't default him. Apparently he "didn't know" the Law ..... I let him off with a warning, but the time will come when using the phone will be scored as a loss also. Interestingly, players always claim not to have heard any announcements or read any notices, but if you're in a tournament, you are (by definition) aware of the Laws of Chess.
     In view of the recent cheating in USA, I expect Gijssen's proposal to be approved.
Best wishes
Kevin Thurlow Kjt2300@aol.com
Redhill

From Colin Walker
30.8.06
Dear Richard
Further to the recent comments on mobile phones, I note the following response from Geurt Gijssen in his Arbiter's Notebook column on the Chess Cafe website:

"It is very difficult to forbid mobiles in the playing hall, as many players do not like to leave them in their hotel room. By announcing that the players have to switch off their mobiles, the arbiter implicitly allows mobiles in the playing hall, as long as they are switched off. And I think you will agree that a mobile set to vibrate mode is not switched off. In 2008, I will propose that if the arbiter notices that a player has a mobile switched on in the playing venue, he will declare the game lost for that player."

This comment, together with widely reported accusations of cheating by means of electronic devices at recent events (see for example http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3292), suggests that FIDE will unfortunately have to adopt even more draconian rules on the subject of mobile phones and other electronic devices.
Colin Walker colinandmariawalker@yahoo.com
Wycombe

From Jeff Goldberg
25.7.06
In order to help clear up all this confusion about mobile phones, I wonder if the ECF might set up a helpline we could call?
Jeff Goldberg noonebutjeff@hotmail.com

From Nick Butland
25.7.06
Mobile Phones
I agree with Ken Norman & Phil Makepeace insofar as any rule must be both simple & applicable. Sadly my employers require me to be available on call in an evening & indeed I had some input on the Bucks rule 35 referred to below [17.7.06]. I would be very sad to have to give up chess.
Nick Butland Nick.Butland@acco.com

From Kevin Thurlow
24.7.06
Dear Richard
Gavin again raises interesting points (letter sent 19.7.07). The FIDE Law does state you are not permitted to bring electronic communications devices into the playing area. This is of course written for "proper" tournaments, e.g. Gausdal, where you play in a hotel and most of the players are staying there. You leave the computer and 'phone in your room then go and play. In evening leagues, players often turn up straight from work, so this Law cannot really apply. Beware of players visiting friends/parents outside the playing area, when the non-player mysteriously has Fritz on the screen....
     You could not reasonably complain if you were defaulted for using a phone during a game. There was an amusing incident in the Surrey League last season, where a player's phone went off early in the game. His opponent was not going to claim the game, until the player answered the phone then carried on a conversation as he left the room. The player and his captain accepted the loss, but then complained afterwards as the same thing had happened to the same player in a match the previous week, and his opponent had let him get away with it! One opponent of Redhill last season actually picked up his phone and made a loud call during the match, but our player decided not to claim the game.
     There was some debate about personal stereos some years ago - a player complained about his opponent listening to such a device; the arbiter looked puzzled and was not interested, so the player said, "Supposing it's a Basman tape on openings?" I guess you would notice if the opponent kept stopping and rewinding the tape! Players have cheated by using earpieces to receive advice from strong players or friends with computers. I would not automatically default a player for listening to an Ipod.
     It was illegal to make use of "written or otherwise recorded information" during a game (so if you are forced to play a computer, you can just claim the game!) Some years ago, I played a junior who wrote a move down, thought about it, put a thin line through it, wrote another move down, etc, until he found one he liked, and then played it - and he frequently referred to what he had written. So that was illegal, and I think that is what the "new" Law is intended to prevent. In practice, if e.g. your opponent goes QxQ+ and the only legal move is KxQ, I doubt anyone will worry if you write your move down before playing it, as you are not benefitting from the action. I played a game last year where my opponent had gone for a walk, so when I played e.g. QxQ+, as there was only one legal reply, I wrote my opponent's move down before he played it. This appears to be legal. Strictly speaking, using a scorebook is not, as the player may refer back to his last Sveshnikov....
     Back to ECF - I quite agree that since Roy Heppinstall arrived, BCF/ECF has improved immeasurably, and if you only have a peripheral interest and/or are inexperienced, you might think everything is wonderful. Those of us who have considerable experience, remember e.g. making a donation to help an English player fight for the world championship, only to discover that the money didn't get there..... This is just one example. Most readers will be aware of this and other incidents. I hope all readers can understand that makes you cautious. ECF does do a lot of good work of course, but didn't David Norwood significantly sponsor the Olympiad team? That should be remembered, and I wonder if ECF will ever make a comment on the series of incidents involving Danny Gormally. Surely, they must say something?
best wishes
Kevin Thurlow Kjt2300@aol.com
Redhill

From Gary Cook
24.7.06
Richard
I have read with interest the talk on mobile phones. In the North Circular League we had a long discussion about this at our last AGM. Finally the members (who the League is designed for) agreed to allowing the mobiles into the playing area, but stating they must be turned off, or with the permission of the captains be switched to silent. Any player whose phone audibly rings loses. This meant making certain amendments to the "official" rules of chess.
     If we had gone down the line of having to use the pure FIDE rule would we also be forced to accept rule 12.5 where they define the playing venue (where mobiles are banned)? This defines the playing venue to include "the refreshment area and area set side for smoking". Since the smoking area in most clubs is outside the building and the refreshment area is in another room, would we also default a player whose phone rings there?
Gary Cook ncclsecretary@yahoo.co.uk
Secretary, North Circular Chess League

From Ken Norman
21.7.06
Richard,
If I could made one further contribution. The correspondence about mobile phones has demonstrated the confusion that currently exists. Roger de Coverly drew attention to the rule applied in the Bucks League. This is different from the rule in the London League. The Berks League has a third version. The Surrey/Hampshire border League a fourth. So we have a situation with multiple interpretations of the law on Mobile Phones. If you are playing in the 4NCL or County Matches (unless you play against Warwickwickshire) the Fide RULE applies. One ring and you have lost the game. At the other end of the spectrum the Berkshire League allows unrestricted access to your mobile phone with no penalty if it rings during play. I'm a bright guy having been a semi-finalist on Brain of Britain a few year ago but I am unable to remember all these different premutations of the rule on mobile phones.
     We need one rule for all competitions. My suggestion is an ECF regulation stating that the FIDE rule on mobile phones must apply in all league matches. Games played under any other rule are not eligible for grading.
Ken Norman knorman@trl.co.uk

From Ken Norman
20.7.06
Richard
Regarding Richard Almond's email to open forum. His recollection of events at the start of the Warwickshire v Sussex match is not correct. My board was very near to the two captains and I could clearly hear every word that was spoken during the pre match announcements and I heard the Warwickshire match captain state that there would be NO penalty if a Mobile Phone range during the match. After the end of his remarks there was an exchange between myself and the Warwickshire match captain when I stated that if my opponents mobile phone rang I would be claiming the game and I got a very unsatisfactory reply from the Warwickshire Captain.
     It seems to me that the Sussex Match Captaining duo of Richard Almond and Paul Selby fell down on the job that day by not challenging the Warwickshire match captains statement immediately it was made.
NOTE FOR NON SUSSEX PLAYERS:
Richard Almond raises the team and informs the players about venues etc. Paul Selby is non playing Match Captain on the day of the match thus allowing Richard to play his game undisturbed.
Ken Norman knorman@trl.co.uk
rjh: - I had not expected this to turn into a disagreement between Sussex people, but so be it. I am sure they will resolve it in private.

From Gavin Strachan
19.7.07
Hi Richard,
What happens if you have your phone on vibrate (no one notices), go out and answer it? Can your opponent claim a win or arbiter decide you lose for chatting on phone? I vaguely remember a huge tournament happening in Minnesota (i think) last year where the prize money was exceptionally high even in the lowest grading section that they had to do all sorts of measures to stop cheating (which a few players did try). I also remember a couple of juniors listening to walkmans whilst playing in a tournament (this was years ago, if it was recent I would say ipod); is that illegal now?
     FIDE state that the rule against writing your move down before playing it has always been in place; yet I do feel there is a bigger emphasis on applying this rule in recent times (not that I ever wrote a move down).
Regards
Gavin Strachan webmaster@brentwoodchessclub.org
Brentwood Chess Club

From Richard Almond
19.7.06
Dear Richard
A recent letter by Ken Norman has set off a chain of several contributions about the Sussex v Warwickshire match. My recollection of pre-match events is different from that of Ken. As Sussex Match Secretary I was the only person from Sussex in contact with Warwickshire in the build up to the match. So I can confirm absolutely that no agreement was made between the two counties to set aside the FIDE rule that stipulates the loss of the game if a mobile phone rings. There is no discrepancy in the rules for this competition and FIDE Laws of Chess, as it is also specifically stated in the ECF County Championship Rules.
     My recollection is that our Match Captain made the technical announcements before play began. My memory is that to do this he once again quoted from the notes provided to SCCU Match Captains at the start of the season to remind players of the FIDE law changes of July 2005. Firstly if a mobile rings it is loss of the game and then going on to remind that you aren't allowed to write your move before playing it. Finishing that point by saying that there wasn't a specific penalty given in the laws. Which is perfectly true and as per the mentioned SCCU notes. So from my recollection I think the confusion has arisen because our Captain said there was no penalty on the scoring matter. There is no reason for me to think our Captain said there wasn’t any penalty for a ringing mobile even if my memory might be inaccurate. I think the Warwickshire Captain’s remarks revolved around the playing arrangements, such as encouraging all to tuck into the excellent spread of refreshments he had laid on.
     One thing I can be certain of, is that had my opponent had a mobile phone that rang during the game, I personally fully believed at the time I would get the point.
     I hope Ken is not offended that I am offering my differing recollection. However I felt I should considering from whom comment has been attracted in this forum and also that it has been reported on to David Welch.
Best Regards
Richard Almond richardalmond141@hotmail.com
Sussex Match Secretary

From Scott Freeman
18.7.06
I have just "bulk-read" a lot of the recent emails on the site and find myself agreeing with many of the points raised.
.......
     (3) Mobile Phones. If the same flexibility were shown to the touch piece move rule as is apparently shown to the mobile phone rule, our competitions would be a shambles. I have had to default two players at Coulsdon in the last year because of phones going off (one whose Mum phoned him to check he had arrived safely at the venue and another thanks to his opponent coming up to me and telling me that it was his opponent who was guilty (I was trying to work it out) but he wasn't asking me to default him......?) and had a third (rather amusing) scenario which I will come to in a minute. Either it's in the laws or it isn't. As has been pointed out, you technically cannot bring such equipment onto the premises of an event without the permission of the arbiter. This wording, no doubt, is to give the arbiter absolute clout if they feel someone is abusing the presence of a phone or computer. Surrey (as the arbiter for SCCA team events) has allowed phones on silent mode as common sense must prevail in the scenario of team members running late or being lost, etc. But they do not allow them to ring out loud. It seems some people think we should come up with some sort of official scheme that allows it in some circumstances and not others? Maybe we should give people two options to touch pieces and then move another before we enforce that rule. Personally, I like Kevin Thurlow's previously stated view that EXTRA penalties should be given to anyone whose phone rings out loud with the Crazy Frog ring-tone.

In concluding, I would appeal to arbiters everywhere not to do what I managed at the Coulsdon "Premiership" International of 2005. An un-named player (sorry!) walks in half an hour late and in a flap because he has lost his mobile phone. He has searched everywhere and has a logical theory. If his phone is at home, it will ring because he has it switched on. If his phone is stolen, it will be off so it cannot be traced. Please can the arbiter phone his mobile and let him know the outcome as he needed to get to his board. No problem.......except that I didn't get round to it for another 20 minutes and the outcome of it was such that I didn't have to go and tell him where it was. All I shall say is that I must be the first arbiter, since the rule came into force, to be directly responsible for a mobile phone going off in the playing area.......
Scott Freeman chess@ccfworld.com
rjh: - How does the phone know if it's been stolen?
sgf: - It doesn't, but the thief would switch it off to avoid being traced.

From Jonathan Melsom
18.7.06
Richard
This seems to be turning into the Bucks League chess forum! I am pleased that Phil Makepeace anticipates becoming a match captain shortly.
     As Roger de Coverly points out the issue of mobile phones is mentioned in the Bucks constitution, and the FIDE rules modified for local purposes. However the constitution does not indicate what action should be taken. I was not at the county AGM where this part of the constitution was added but if an incident arose and the matter came to me as League Controller I would expect a penalty (game forfeiture) to be applied, since it is a distraction to the opponent. In the absence of match captains being allowed to act as arbiters - I would be expect players to adhere to the FIDE rules (as modified) when playing a game. Roger will also know that I am unhappy with match captains having no clear role in respect of disputes, but my view on this and other issues rarely holds much support at county AGMs.
     On the merits of FIDE requirements - I've never used a scorebook during a game or written my move down before playing it, but both could be construed as consulting written information. There is value in these rules therefore, but the main reason for application at a local level must be to ensure consistency amongst players. With 4NCL etc bringing chess under FIDE rules to a much broader base of player it is reasonable to encourage correct practice amongst all players unless there are strong reasons to depart. However, the language in which a game is recorded should be regarded as a matter for a degree of subsidiarity, so I would be very unhappy if anybody suffered rebuke or penalty for recording in descriptive notation.
Jonathan Melsom jonathan.melsom@tiscali.co.uk
Bucks League Controller
Wycombe & Hazlemere

From Roger de Coverly
17.7.06
In response to Phil Makepeace, I would regard the Bucks position on mobile phones to be as stated in the constitution at http://www.buckschess.uk.eu.org/BCCA_Constitution_July_2004.htm.
     Match Environment
35. Mobile Phones should be switched off during play. Those with jobs who are needed "on call" may leave the phones in silent mode. Match captains may need to contact late arrivals: this should be done outside the playing area away from earshot of the players.
     This is one of four issues where I believe it is appropriate for an evening chess league to depart from strict compliance with the current Fide rules. The other three being
(a) writing the moves down before you play them
(b) using a scorebook as distinct from a scoresheet
(c) using descriptive notation.
     I am sometimes a match captain in the Bucks League. If a mobile phone rang I would expect the player to turn it off asap. I wouldn't anticipate a penalty. (There's no arbiter present to enforce one! - in the Bucks League match captains are not substitute arbiters.)
Roger de Coverly rdc@rdc200.fsnet.co.uk

From Phil Makepeace
17.7.06
Dear Richard,
I'd like to express my own dissatisfaction with the confusion regarding the mobile phone rules. I play in the Bucks League and while there have been discussions at the last couple of Bucks AGMs about this issue, I cannot say I know what would happen if a player's mobile phone did ring. Given I could be a match captain very shortly, this is clearly not acceptable.
     Focusing more on the ECF, I played in an ECF junior tournament last year where it was stated beforehand that a ringing mobile results in the loss of the game. However, in the two instances where this happened, no action was taken. While I sympathise with the arbiters - it must be difficult to enforce forfeiture for such an offence, especially with a junior - rules are rules and I was not impressed. Indeed, neither player whose mobile had rung went on to lose their game.
Regards,
Phil Makepeace phil_makepeace@btinternet.com
Wycombe & Hazlemere

From David Sedgwick
17.7.06
Dear Richard,
I was very surprised to learn from Ken Norman's letter that the FIDE Law regarding mobile phones was not applied at the recent County Match between Sussex and Warwickshire. I've always found that David Welch (ECF Manager of Congress Chess and Chief Arbiter) takes a very firm line on this issue. For example, the Law was applied strictly at the 2006 Gibtelecom Chess Festival, an event at which Ken was present. It was also applied at the 2005 Smith & Williamson British Championships in Douglas and I would certainly expect the same to be the case at Swansea.
     I'm copying this letter to David Welch to inform him about my comments and about Sussex v Warwickshire. I should make clear that the Counties Championships do not fall within David's area of responsibility.
Yours sincerely,
David Sedgwick david.sedgwick@amserve.com
23 Tierney Court, Canning Road, Croydon CR0 6QA

From Neill Cooper
16.7.06
Richard
At various EPSCA (English Primary Schools) team events I've been to, the FIDE rule have been applied - if your phone rings then you lose the game. And if a team manager's phone rings then the team lose a point. I'm not aware of a phone ever ringing. As with the Prom concerts, it is diplomatic to warn players before the start of the event.
     Note that the FIDE rule (http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=EE101 ) is that "It is strictly forbidden to bring mobile phones or other electronic means of communication, not authorised by the arbiter, into the playing venue." However the only penalty specified is that "If a player's mobile phone rings in the playing venue during play, that player shall lose the game." I think this rule should be the one that is used.
     Similarly you should not record your move before you play it. Some juniors are finding this a tough change, and Tony Miles' watch must be spinning in his grave.
Yours
Neill Cooper nsc@cplusc.co.uk

From Ken Norman
15.7.06
Richard,
Mobile Phones
In England we seem to be making a complete mess of applying the law on mobile phones.
     My friends in the Netherlands tell me that in the Amsterdam leagues they apply the FIDE rules. If your phone rings you lose. The SCCU applies the FIDE rule in its county matches. We had an example last season in the Surrey v Sussex match. The mobile phone of a Surrey player rang and he lost the game.
     However when Sussex played Warwickshire in the ECF stage of the Counties Championship it was announced before the start of play that there would be no penalty applied if a mobile phone rang. Apparently the ECF does not believe in applying FIDE rules to its own competitions. I shall be interested to see what rule is applied at the ECF Congress in Swansea. Will it be the FIDE rule or ECF rule?
     I have done a very unscientific survey of a few leagues. London League allows the mobile phone to ring once without penalty, if it rings a second time you lose the game. The Surrey/Hants Border League is more generous and allows the mobile phone to ring on two occasions. You lose the game if it rings a third time. Two other leagues had no mention of mobile phones in their rules. If there is no specific reference to mobile phones in the rules of a league does that mean the FIDE rule applies?
     The current situation is very unsatisfactory. It is very confusing for players and can be the cause of animosity between opponents. Am I the only person who believes we should have only one law about mobile phones and that law should apply without exception throughout England?
Regards
Ken Norman dandkn1066@virgin.net

Earlier material (lots of it) is in the Archive.